Question on Pioneer (P80RS) Position Selector

[Ractis]

Hi, I just tried setting the position selector to (Front Right), and I notice the headunit adjust the level of my left channel by -3dB

 

That seems quite counter-intuitive? Shouldnt the right channel volume be lowered instead of the left channel?

 

Any thoughts on this? thanks

[Hyun]

u usually play front left isit?

now u switch front right.

 

in front left, u set ur right channel -3 right.

what front right simply does is, it inverts the left-right of your TA, and your fader settings will be saved.

 

so when u're listening it should be already set to front right. not left. so when u switch to front left, the TA inverts and your passenger gets the "right" TA.

 

take note also that simply inverting TA doesn't switch the stage to the left. a lot has to do with speaker (e.g. tweeter) positioning. it is possible to set tweeter positioning so that when u flip the TA, the stage is just nice centralised for passenger. u just need to find the right position. most other positions, TA can be nice when u listen as driver, but when u flip, the "centre" goes off for passenger.

[Ractis]

Hmm no i've never used the position selector before, it was either set to 'front' or 'none' previously. Nevermind I will try out the auto-ta and eq and see what happens

 

I have another related question though: normally, for car audio, the apparent 'center' is not the center of the windshield but closer to the driver side, isnt it. So when tuning, is it the goal to move the center of the soundstage back to the center of the windscreen, or move the soundstage to center right in front of the driver?

Edited August 6, 2006 by Ractis

[Hyun]

if u have not used the front-left front-right before, most likely someone has, and put the left-right fader to one side. by hitting the mode, u are recalling the saved setting.

 

the idea of soundstage most importantly is your own personal preference. the "official" centre most people adopt is somewhere in the centre, but not quite exactly at the centre of the windscreen. there are those who prefer it a bit outside - on your bonnet. so to you it is a little right side of the windscreen. some like it at the exact centre of the windscreen. my personal preference is the bonnet direction, otherwise if u set it right at the centre of the windscreen u might find a lot of sound is leftwards.

 

some like it right in front of you, the driver. it's fun to have someone singing right in front of u. very natural. the left stage has a lot of space to spread too, but the sacrifice is of course, the right stage.

 

who knows, u might like to settle for something somewhere in between all this.

[Kermit]

Stick to front left. It should be correct. I think measurements are taken for Left-Hand drive vehicles. Wonder why also, but seems correct.

[Ractis]

I just did the auto TA and EQ last night, the -3db on left channels is correct, I guess they were trying to move the center of the soundstage to directly in front of me.

 

One weird thing is that the auto TA placed my left mid speaker double the actual distance away. The auto-EQ seems a bit suspect also ^^; maybe i'm not used to a neutral sound. Anyway I am manually setting the TA and having EQ turned off for now, will see if I can get use to having the soundstage center directly in front of me

 

thanks for all your feedback!

[Sarong1]

One question, when you are doing your auto TA, where do you place the mic?

[Ractis]

its on the headrest of the front-right drivers seat. I moved the seat a bit forward from my usual position, to simulate the distance from my ears to the headrest

[Sarong1]

OK. Now, the wonderful thing about auto TA and why sometimes we just dun feel alright with the setting is because we have a pair of ears while the mic is one (though its omni). Our ears are pretty sensitive to source which explained why your perceived centre may not be what the system recognise. Use the auto TA measurements as a guide. rely on your ear more to narrow down the figures on your TA.

 

Likewise for auto EQ, there is a range of freq that the auto EQ can't measure as effective as our ears. This range is determined largely by our car acoustic and we can only use our ears to judge. Try meddling with the range of 400Hz or sometimes 600Hz. You will feel the difference.

 

By the way, your HU provides independent Left and right EQ, have fun with it. Its a very useful tool to control the centre image as well...

Edited August 7, 2006 by Sarong1

[Ractis]

Thanks, yup with the TA and independant level settings, I was able to move the center directly in front of me. Still not used to it though.

Is this what thats being done for those SQ competitions? As in, they expect the soundstage to be centered in front of the driver? Or is it ok for the center to be in the middle of the windscreen?

[Sarong1]

The part about having the center sound stage in the center of "what" is pretty subjective. Folks around with competition experience may be able to share more. From what I understand, a lot of folks prefer the center soundstage to be in center of the front windscreen. I cannot reconcile this part and find it difficult to accept.

 

Take for eg, when you buy tickets for a sci-fi movie in a cinema, which is the highly demanded seats? Isn't it in the center? Because the theater left, right and center speakers form a nice triangulation on you. Same in a concert hall. That is how you get the best sound effects from which. Now, translate that into our car, it will be a total different story, we have the right speakers so close to us for comfort, that's why we have TA to help "push" the right speakers away and yet in tandem with the left speakers. Theoretically, the center soundstage SHOULD be in front of you but you will realise that the right sound stage will be utterly lacking(maciam got lobang or vacuum), depending on system used.

 

So how? Well, what I do, is to place the center soundstage slightly right off the windscreen's center. Through which, I achieve a wider soundstage and balanced left-right imaging. What is more important about TA, is not merely fixating the center but rather, working on a FIXED and STABLISED imaging. I would prefer a more stablised imaging even though my center is slightly off center. So, just how much is off right of center? I would say somewhere about 5cm away from the center is good, well, again depending on how wide is your car.... Just my experience...

Edited August 7, 2006 by Sarong1

[Bobcatsysop]

Hi Bro,

I am also using Pioneer P80 running 2-way passive only. Understand you are running active right?

 

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From my experience in my Nissan Sunny N16, my standard Position is placed Front/LEFT. My centerstage Vocal is in the center just a little outside the windscreen. At this normal position, my front passenger is hearing the centerstage Vocal right smack in front of him/her.

 

When I switched to Front/RIGHT, the exact opposite occurs. That means I hear the centerstage Vocal right in front of me, the driver while my front passenger hears the centerstage vocal in the center, just a little outside the windscreen.

 

I am experiencing this.. Does this sounds right to you?

[Ractis]

Yup that is right, the default left, front and right settings move the center of the soundstage accordingly. I think they do that by adjusting the levels and time delays of each speaker.

 

Right now i'm experimenting and have a tweeter and a 3" mid on dash, with the lows in my front door stock location (pointing at feet)

[Bobcatsysop]

Hi Bro,

 

<< Yup that is right, the default left, front and right settings move the center of the soundstage accordingly. I think they do that by adjusting the levels and time delays of each speaker. >>

 

My TA was tuned manually by bro Kermit and bro Sarong1. We do not use AutoTA or AutoEQ at all. All are manual custom settings.

 

What is your ride?

[Bluemice]

By the way, your HU provides independent Left and right EQ, have fun with it. Its a very useful tool to control the centre image as well...

 

hi bro,

 

can explain a bit on this indep L/R ch EQ thingie. though i m not using this, mine HU( clarion 956) has this too. but didnt really make use of it. can share a bit on its hidden goodness n how it helps in the imaging.

 

thanks

 

mice

[Slidingturtle]

its great reading this thread , cos for a long while i thought my TA is a bit strange, as many in various forums typically talked abt TA in reference to making it in the center of the windscreen. It was something i have tried but found this so called "correct" position just didn't sound too "right" for me, as i just felt the left side having too much. Slowly, i found what i am really comfortable is a position slightly to the right, or to the driver's side... so now i know it is not weird... at least now feel a bit better... haha..

 

great thread..

[Sarong1]

The good thing about having both L/R EQ is the control over some critical freq range(on either side) to eliminate the lag for eg. Say vocal, when a singer hit certain pitch, it portrays a phenomenon known or mistaken by many as drift. I took some time to reconcile this "drift" (not Takumi-drift) . Well, the thing is that, our speakers are not made exactly the same even though it came out from the same batch from the same factory . Even our left and right ears differ in size and is more sensitive over the other. So, the L/R EQ comes in handy to tackle the small drift within a vocal for eg.

 

I always believe that TA and EQ works in hand after the crossover point in set. For every shift in TA, it affects the tonality somewhat. This has got to do with phasing (TA works like phasing). That phasing changes the characteristic of some freq ranges.

 

I find it relevant whenever i have a fixed position vocal but the vocal doesn't sound natural. I use the EQ to attenuate or push up to alter the loss while not affecting the rest of the ranges. Sometimes, it could just be the biase with one side of the speakers.

 

Now, may I ask, which ear determines the center imaging?

 

Can understand my telok singlish?

Edited August 7, 2006 by Sarong1

[Bluemice]

thanks for the prompt reply & guidance.

 

now to head for my car and head this "drift".

 

It seems rather abstract. Can i put that that at that very instance, what u hear from your left ear vs your right ear, there is a certain amt of difference. And this diff, is NOT due to TA, (while the Xover being consistent regardless of L/R ch dun hv any effect) thus difference is "corrected" be EQ-ing one of the ch to be consistent with the other. then how do u know which is correct and which to chg ?

 

thanks again.

 

one more thing, this thread ,as the earlier bro said, is very

 

mice