Comparing oranges with oranges: Engine oil

[Genie47]

First up! Castrol SLX Longtec 0W30 versus cxxxxxe Triple R Longlife 0W30

 

SLX Longtec 0W30

V@40 is 72

V@100 is 12.2

Flashpoint is 236C

TBN is unknown but I believe it should be 12.

Cost is 78/4L plus other freebies like camping chair if you bargain hard at Forklift.

 

cxxxxxe Triple R Longlife 0W30

V40 is 70.0

V100 is 12.0

Flashpoint is 205C

TBN is 11.2

Cost is 79.90/5L and might get free shampoo

 

Longtec looks better on paper plus you can get some freebies. cxxxxxe looks good but if you don't care for freebies, bulk purchases of 3X bottles usually mean a lot of savings.

 

Next is synthetic blends. Schaeffer's Supreme Blend 7000 5W30 vs cxxxxxe Triple R Semi-Synthetic 5W30

 

Schaeffer's Supreme Blend 7000 5W30

V@40 is 47-52

V@100 is 10-12

Flashpoint is 231C

TBN is 7.5

Cost is 8.50/qt

 

cxxxxxe Triple R Semi-Synthetic 5W30

V40 is 64.5

V100 is 10.3

Flashpoint is 199C

TBN is 10.1

Cost is 39.90/5L

 

Verdict: SS7k 5W30 with its better additive package and superior basestock. However, in the longevity stakes, cxxxxxe might be better for long drain. That TBN is good. Also in the economies of scale, 3X bottles is definitely good if you horde oil.

 

Finally, the mineral oils. cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite 10W30 vs Citgo Supergard 10W30

 

Citgo Supergard 10W30

V@40 is 68

V@100 is 10.4

Flashpoint is 231C

TBN is not indicated but I guess it should be between 7 and 8.

Cost is 5.75/qt

 

cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite 10W30

V@40 is 70.0

V@100 is 11.3

Flashpoint is 237C

TBN is 7.6

Cost is 26.99/5L

 

If you are a real cheapoman. Don't give a damn about this synthetic vs mineral debate that has raged on since the last World War, do 5-8k oil changes and only look out for your pocket, change oil filter every alternate oil change. All this so that people in Zimbabwe or Botswana gets the most screwed up used Toyota. I would say the winner is cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite 10W30. Great if you like to horde.

 

Citgo is good if you like my UOA report on it.

[Glyuen]

How come the S7K is superior when its TBN is so low? I tot higher TBN better and can last longer?

[Genie47]

Look at the flashpoint. Which is going to burn up bad? The lower one lah! No amount of TBN is going to help you if you burn off. Also Schaeffer's additive package is a killer. They formulated it themselves and they didn't use the services of the oil giants unlike some oil blenders. Formulating an oil with the additive package is hard work.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Genie47

[Mzrmazda3]

Bro, great info Finally, i can understand a bit of the comparison between TBN, Flashpoint ... etc

[Genie47]

Higher flashpoint, basestock quality is better. Look at Schaeffers flashpoint compare with the cxxxxxe 5W30 flashpoint. The cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite 10W30 has the best quality basestock compared with the rest save for the 5W40 which has a very high flashpoint.

[Tkseah]

Genie.. this brings up a question I have as to how often to change engine oil filter. Should it be with every oil change, alternate oil change or even less frequently??

[Genie47]

It will be good at every oil change. I mean if you kiam every alternate oil change but I don't see the reason behind it unless your oil filter is woven with gold threads. I get mine between 4-4.50 per filter. It is cheap. Dunno but I heard Toyota originals are expensive.

[Ironstarz]

Pls pardon me as i super noob on this

 

what is the meaning of can u enlighten me on this really appreciate it

 

Flashpoint

TBN

V @ 40

V @ 100

 

Thks

[Pisces69]

Original toyota oil filters from fong tat used to cost only $6.50 ea.

 

Air filters abt $18 ea.

 

Not sure abt price now cos I stopped getting from Fong Tat some time back.

[Genie47]

Flashpoint higher = better oil stock. It is like comparing $2 candle use for normal stuff producing a lot of black smoke and $12 candle that burns for romantic candlelight dinners and does not produce black smoke.

 

TBN is how alkaline the oil is. More alkaline can resist acids from combustion products. So can last longer.

 

V@40 is viscosity at 40 deg C. Gives you an idea how fast the oil flows at ambient temperature. Lower is good for easier start up.

 

V2100 is viscosity at 100 deg C. Gives you an idea how fast the oil flows at operating temperature. Low is good. Especially for fuel economy oil.

[Audi69]

  Quote

First up! Castrol SLX Longtec 0W30 versus cxxxxxe Triple R Longlife 0W30

 

SLX Longtec 0W30

V@40 is 72

V@100 is 12.2

Flashpoint is 236C

TBN is unknown but I believe it should be 12.

Cost is 78/4L plus other freebies like camping chair if you bargain hard at Forklift.

 

cxxxxxe Triple R Longlife 0W30

V40 is 70.0

V100 is 12.0

Flashpoint is 205C

TBN is 11.2

Cost is 79.90/5L and might get free shampoo

 

Longtec looks better on paper plus you can get some freebies. cxxxxxe looks good but if you don't care for freebies, bulk purchases of 3X bottles usually mean a lot of savings.

 

Next is synthetic blends. Schaeffer's Supreme Blend 7000 5W30 vs cxxxxxe Triple R Semi-Synthetic 5W30

 

Schaeffer's Supreme Blend 7000 5W30

V@40 is 47-52

V@100 is 10-12

Flashpoint is 231C

TBN is 7.5

Cost is 8.50/qt

 

cxxxxxe Triple R Semi-Synthetic 5W30

V40 is 64.5

V100 is 10.3

Flashpoint is 199C

TBN is 10.1

Cost is 39.90/5L

 

Verdict: SS7k 5W30 with its better additive package and superior basestock. However, in the longevity stakes, cxxxxxe might be better for long drain. That TBN is good. Also in the economies of scale, 3X bottles is definitely good if you horde oil.

 

Finally, the mineral oils. cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite 10W30 vs Citgo Supergard 10W30

 

Citgo Supergard 10W30

V@40 is 68

V@100 is 10.4

Flashpoint is 231C

TBN is not indicated but I guess it should be between 7 and 8.

Cost is 5.75/qt

 

cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite 10W30

V@40 is 70.0

V@100 is 11.3

Flashpoint is 237C

TBN is 7.6

Cost is 26.99/5L

 

If you are a real cheapoman. Don't give a damn about this synthetic vs mineral debate that has raged on since the last World War, do 5-8k oil changes and only look out for your pocket, change oil filter every alternate oil change. All this so that people in Zimbabwe or Botswana gets the most screwed up used Toyota. I would say the winner is cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite 10W30. Great if you like to horde.

 

Citgo is good if you like my UOA report on it.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Lukie102

[Genie47]

cxxxxxe cannot always fight on price alone. Technically, the lubes from cxxxxxes are justly priced for what the specs say. Schaeffer's got a strong additive package I believe that even Mobil 1 finds it hard to match. You pay for Schaeffer's superior additives.

 

The main exception is the Gold Extra Lite. Looking at the flashpoint, nothing light about it.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Genie47

[Trex101]

There is a collation between API Gravity wt (the thicker the base stock, the lower the number) and flash point (the thicker the base oil, the higher the flash point).

Higher flashpoint means they use more pour point depressant instead of VII to formulate the oil, the advantage of this type of formulation are less VII = less shearing. (applicable to same base stocks)

 

example of how heavier API Gravity affect the flash point.

http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/355111.pdf

 

Base stocks play a big part in the stability of the oil under high load and temperature. The amount of aromatic in the base stocks will also determine the oxidation rate and Noak %. The amount of aromatic will be determine by it base group. Group I, II, II+, III, IV or V

 

Another important part of the oil formulation is the additives package.

Anti-wear additives works as boundary lubrication in certain conditions (during startup) & engine parts (eq. Like valve trains). Without a strong additives package in the oil, the formulated oil will not be able to protect certain parts and during startup.

 

Schaeffer is made-up of 60-70% group II+ (ISOSYN) and 20-25% group IV (PAO) couple with a killer additives package of penetro & micro-moly. Schaeffer knows she cannot fight with the big boys on prices alone; it has to fight with top quality products without elevated prices. This is how a small company like Schaeffer survives with the on slash of the big boys till now since 1839.

 

Just out of curiosity, what % base stock group is cxxxxxe 10w30 made up of? Prices is not everything but quality is. Maybe Carrefouroil, oilguy or any of his clone can answer this question?

Edited June 26, 2006 by Trex101

[Glyuen]

wah, this is getting very very chim.

 

so cxxxxxe Gold Extra Lite is better cos of its higher flashpoint? Can last longer than S7k?

[Ben50]

Mobil 1 is SM and cxxxxxe is SL.

Is SM specification better than SL?

[Genie47]

Considering all things. Most if not all the oil in the market can last at least 10k km. Mineral oil included. SS7k is different. The additive package and the basestock pushes it really up. Got siao ding dong in USA use it for 26k km w/o a change. Results came back very good but he didn't test TBN. Must have been shot to pieces.

[Genie47]

All new cars need at least SL now. Got good got bad. SL more additives than SM. SM got better basestock.

 

Why? SL needs the additives to cover up for the poorer basestock. SM got better basestock to cover for lowered additive content compared to SL.

[Genie47]

I'm trying to put it simply for some people here. Higher flashpoint usually means the basestock takes hell a lot more beating.

 

As for % of basestock that cxxxxxe 10W30 is made of, I believe it could be Group II or II+. The oil is inexpensive and most likely uses Group II which is really inexpensive.

 

The 5W30 blend most likely be I+IV. The 5W40 w/o a doubt most likely be III+IV or how else can call it "Fully Synthetic" legally.

 

Speaking of additives, I need some MolyEP for a cxxxxxe experiment using Molabrew.

Edited June 27, 2006 by Genie47