A new definition to Lexus' Relentless Pursuit of Perfection

[Tacheron]

I am quite new to this.

But can someone enlighten me as to what does:

1) misalignment of doors

2) the bigger gaps between different panels

 

do in terms of overall car performance or any other disadvantages?

 

P.S.

I just want to understand this from a more holistic view rather than just saying physical defects = bad car. Cause I find this stand very loose. Cheers!

[Koolaba]

Hi,

 

The 2 points you have highlighted do not have a direct correlation to any detrimental effects of the overall car performance.

 

According to what I have gathered during my visit to the VW's Glass Factory in Dresden (which assembles the VW Phaeton) and Skoda's manufacturing plant in Mlada Boleslav, the above phenomena are 2 of the many indicators which suggest that the car manufacturer does not practice very tight quality controls during the entire manufacturing process.

 

I would like to quote one of my previous posts in

http://www.mycarforum.com/forum/gforum.cgi...Corolla;#983934

 

If you do a comparison between the Corolla Altis from Thailand and Corolla from Japan, it is not difficult to detect the following:

- the Corolla has tighter gaps between the front and rear door panels compared to the Corolla Altis

- the doors on the Corolla have a better alignment compared to those of the Corolla Altis

 

The conclusion which I can derive from this comparison: the Toyota plant in Japan practices stricter Quality Control and Checks compared to the Toyota plant in Rayong, Thailand.

 

Just to share with you something which could be interest. The VW Dresden and Skoda Mlada Boleslav plants practice 100% optical screening with a dedicated machine on all the gaps between panels on all conceivable areas of the car they assemble. This reflects to the level of QC that the plants practice and attention to detail that VW and Skoda observes.

[Tacheron]

ok thanks.

 

So I guess many guys get to do their own judgement from here now.

 

But just to check, the indicators you mentioned are basically practised by VW group right? Is it an industrial standard? If not, then its subjective.

 

My 2 cents :) Like I said earlier, QC to you means something, QC to another means another thing. To some consumers, QC may mean nothing.

[Tashi]

hi mate

I think VW group (including Audi, Seat, Skoda and VW itself), all adhere to the same manufacturing practices. I think what bro Koolaba mentioned is that the VW group places a lot of emphasis in ensuring strict quality control, with 100% optical screening. That is NOT subjective, that is their practice.

 

Let's say for example, if the minimum standard for a hard disk manufacturer A is 20% failure rate, where the failed items are placed back on "rework", and another hard disk manufacturer B chooses instead to have just 5% failure rate, that is NOT subjective. It just goes to mean that the QC of manufacturer B is much stricter, and in the end, better quality goods shipped out to customers, and a "generally" higher chance of longevity in the products, given that manufacturing tolerance even for UNfailed items may cause them to fail at some point. So the higher the throughput with lesser failure rate, the better and longer lasting the products are LIKELY to be.

 

The same can be said for cars. Therefore, QC is practised by different manufacturers differently, but the end result is NOT subjective.

 

just imho. I was from manufacturing btw.

 

bless

tashi

[Boyboy]

there's a post about the jap made toyota vs thai made toyota in another thread. u can see that the toyota (corolla i think) had no such misalignment in the doors.

 

I'd not bother about such things if i were buying a korean car (not saying that their doors are misaligned or stuff like that.. they may have better alignment, who knows?), but i think the point koobala is trying to make is that corners have been cut, despite the marketing of a near "perfect" product. who knows what other manufacturing quirks there are, that may not be seen? for the premium paid over the regular toyotas, besides reduced noise, increased power, i'd surely expect excellent build quality as well.

 

sure, the non nitpicker may not notice, but if the $ spent on such a car means anything, surely u will care about the what u get for what u paid

[Tashi]

hi bro

I think ALL cars can be good, given the right price, with the right features that one needs. Bro Koolaba said it well that products should be sold on merits, for a fair price. For "over"-marketed products that the channels choose to price upwards because of inflated marketing budgets and other operational expenses, and NOT passing on the inherent savings due to lower cost of manufacturing, just does not bode well.

 

The analogy would be, if you go to a hawker center, and there are 2 stalls selling say, Chicken Rice. The stall with the fair price, AND good quality food at good quantity, will be the frequently visited stall. Conversely, the stall that sells 50 cents more than the other stall, gives a tiny serving of chicken, offers no soup, will find it hard to justify its price tag.

 

bless

tashi

[Bego]

think wat Koolaba is trying to say is that the RECENT lexus/toyota may nt be up to standards which its company preaches about... so think the survey thing u mention is nt v relevant to his comments ba...

 

oh, another thing, its seems like u r insinuating tat skoda is a f*** brand...hmm, think thats a bit unfair, and IF thats wat u think, (since u touch on TOP GEAR SURVEY) then maybe u could realise that skoda's 'ranking' is pretty high on the charts ya!

 

I never say skoda is a fcuk brand, I say skoda OR OTHER FCUK Brand.

 

End of e day, who am I to comment whether a certain brand is fcuk or not. I am just a small fly who cannot make enough money to afford a car. that why I like to hang in there, so that I can learn more about cars.

 

I never study too high, so my language a bit unrefined, fellow skoda owners pls. dun be offended, your ride is ok la.

[Koolaba]

You are welcome.

 

As far as I know, the indicators that I have mentioned form part of the many criteria for QC in the German automotive industry. From what you can see in the comparison of the Corolla and Corolla Altis, I am quite certain it is not an industrial standard.

[Tacheron]

ok good.

 

I think its good that everything is clarified and we have a more balanced view now.

 

The replies speaks for itself that probably the wording of this post has been a bit to subjective.

 

Good for such info to be available, but lets keep all the comments objective :)

 

Cheers!

[Odyssey02]

can i just check with you if VW still uses laser welded doors?

[PointyEwe]

In my current work, we've dealt with German, Japanese and Korean inspectors for pressure vessels.

 

German Inspector

- Technically sound, follow by the book

- Freaking nitpicking on every single QC detail. Will not try to understand why certain non conformance can occur.

- Require everything to be aesthetically pleasant looking to the eye even though it has nothing to do with mechanical performance.

 

Japanese Inspector

- Technically sound, flexible

- Understanding on why certain QC problem occurs and will help to solve the problem together.

- Not so insistant on having aesthetically pleasant looking surfaces if it does not impact on mechanical performances.

 

Korean Inspector

- Less technically sound, flexible

- Does not understand why certain QC problem occurs and will not help to solve the problem either.

- Very insistant on having aesthetically pleasant looking surfaces even though it does not impact on mechanical performances.

 

Of all 3 countries, we prefer the Japanese and follow by the Koreans.

We hate the Germans.

[Koolaba]

Yes for the made in German models. I am not sure about those assembled in South Africa though e.g. the Polo. It can be a mix of arc- and laser-welding.

 

Since u mention about laser welding, the top-end models from the VAG group incorporate laser welding on the chassis and major structural members. The middle and lower end models incorporate a mix of arc and laser welding.

[Weiming]

Another POV on this contentious issue:

http://www.designnews.com/article/CA6262124.html

 

In summary, the article states that the whole assembly is more important than any one of its parts.

[Koolaba]

Interesting article "The Quest for Imperfection".

 

However Lexus' motto is "The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection". Looking at the IS250 and GS300 which have been featured in the post, it may be more logical to coax Lexus to rephrase their motto.

 

My thoughts.

[Weiming]

I think their motto has changed to "The Passionate Pursuit of Perfection". Of course perfection can never be achieved in this capitalistic world but hey...it sounds impressive nonetheless

[Ahbengdriver]

There is no such thing as a perfect car. Read this thread from a owner who has both a lexus and bmw, and make yr own judgement when u buy yr next car.

 

http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/other-marques...s-problems.html

[Tacheron]

hi,

thanks for this good read.

I have came across this article sometime back and its another good viewpoint.

 

More importantly, from a personal point of view, it complements the general modern consumer mentality who wants things to function rather than be "perfect" or "high quality".

 

But note the recommendations given for best bets etc. It looks to support many US and Japanese brands. Take it with a pinch of salt!

[Tashi]

hi bro, very good read indeed. Very honest and straightforward count by count incident list. At the end of the day, the gist of it is that no matter what marque, it is important to get good service, and to at least do a bit of prior research. It would also help if there are alternatives to be able to service the vehicle should the "mainstream" experience be not up to expectations.

 

keep blessed

tashi

 

PS - We (wife and I) detailed our own showroom visiting experiences, and frankly, some of the marques treated us like invisible people (Toyota and Lexus) while others, such as Audi, Chevy (SA), Skoda (CA), BMW, were wonderful. Wife was particular about safety and customer experience, and I was more concerned about price, so we struck a compromise.

Edited June 29, 2006 by Tashi