Can Passive System Tune TA?

[Newice1234]

just wondering, can i run passive system and managed to tune ta till swee swee in the centre too?

[Darkness]

Can do TA but how swee swee depends on ur hardware and gongfu

[Headshok]

i still trying to tink of way.. heheheh.. but it can be done.. heheh..

[Mdvic]

Can, my last setup was passive, the sound comes right on top of the back mirror..

 

Wah! nice sound man..

 

Now My ACTIVE, still try to seek our Bros help in tunning the HU...

My sound is like SH..T man,...

 

very with the sound output now......

Edited June 16, 2006 by Mdvic

[Kwongwing]

Try this - lower your mid-bass volume by 1 or 2 db relative to your tweeters; or switch the crossover point to a lower frequency.

The idea is to make your tweeters work a bit harder - which should raise theoretically raise your soundstage

[Mdvic]

Tks Bro,

 

I really dont know what you are talking about,,, but will try to find the db and crossover point..

 

A day liven again.............

[Newice1234]

bro, you care to elaborate on the hardware and gongfu? i using only a focal k2p upgraded which i bought 2nd hand running passive at the moment.

[Newice1234]

bro, any advise on how to achieve it? cos' no matter how i try, it's only a one sided thingy and i felt the mids distance was further then the tweeters.

[Mdvic]

Sorry Bro,

 

I just anyhow shoot and got it,,,

 

Got one time manage to Tune to right at the top of the door light switch ,,

 

Wah!!!! that one "Supersound". dam good man..

 

All the sounds seem to be hovering above your head.....

Maybe you can seek advise with some of the ICE Guru..........

 

Sorry that i cannot help you.... because i know nuts about ICE.

 

 

 

 

But from what i know you will need a powerful back AMp to pump the JUICE OUT, if not it will not be able to balance the sound right to the centre...

 

Maybe i am wrong bro.....

Edited June 16, 2006 by Mdvic

[Darkness]

Well...based on my limited knowledge so far

 

Hardware:

 

Different speakers and HU have diff characteristics. Also based on some ppls' experience, TA is also somewat affected by ur EQ settings and (High Pass / Low Pass) points. So if ur hardware has only a few parameters that can be adjusted then might be harder to achive exactly wat you want.

 

I cannot be too sure but i believe things like your amp / woofer etc also affect the precision of ur TA.

 

Quite a number of bros in the nasi padang meetup using focal speakers. And their systems (some active some passive) sound great. What is your Headunit? Cause those stock / oem HU have very few parameters that u can tweak.

 

Gongfu (Skill):

 

The guy who tunes for u must have the ability to detect/pinpoint the flaws etc in ur setup so that he/she can tweak the right parameters. For this you can either do it the trial and error way or find someone with the correct expertise. Drop by for the nasi padang meetup and talk to some of the bros. They are really good at it.

 

The other thing is knowing how to use ur equipment. (ie how to operate the HU). This is quite easy most of the times since there is a manual to refer to.

 

Hope that answers your questions.

[Newice1234]

i'm using the 9855 hu.

 

btw, can you elaborate more on the amp and woofer that you mention that will affect the precision of the TA?

 

for TA, must the sound be at the rear mirror cos' i always thought as long as it's in the centre it's correct liao. it seems very hard for me to tune passive as it seems unbalanced for the tweets and mids.

 

any gurus here can advise?

[Darkness]

Exact position of the source is very subjective. Some like it in the middle and at dashboard level. Others like it a bit higher. And then there are those who feel that TA is unnatural so they do not subscribe to it.

 

The most impt is to tune such that u like it and the sound is natural to u (and ur passangers as much as possible). I don't think there is such a thing as correct position. (maybe competition wise it is a different ball game)

 

Amp and woofer...hummm very hard to explain but in very layman terms some of the different amp, speaker and woofer combinations will give u different music quality. There are just too many combinations so very hard to go into details.

 

Amp needs to be powerful/efficent enough to reproduce certain notes and the woofer needs to hit and go off at the correct timing etc. Maybe such things do not really affect TA but will definately affect the overall music/song quality. Thus indirectly affects how precise the music reaches ur ears.

 

Maybe the other bros would like to explain a bit more cause as i said b4 my knowledge is rather limited when it comes to TA. (and pls do correct me if i am wrong )

 

Your HU seems decent. In fact it is quite widely used so i beleive u should not have too much prob getting hold of someone used to it

 

Cheers

Edited June 16, 2006 by Darkness

[Sarong1]

Different individuals have different concept and perception of TA. In general, many opined that the TAed position should be such that it falls in the centre of the dashboard. Many others prefer off centre, either to the left or to the right, depending on the comfort level.

 

TA involves not only the imaging and positioning but also the size and relative distance at which YOU think is most natural. So, we are talking about perception; how we perceive the music should sound in the car acoustic.

 

In SQ terms, I reckon that the exact rendering of the source is the most important. With the experience from live performances or recital studio presentation, you want to recreate that similar image in the car.

 

I don't think it is a must to be exactly in the centre, so long the imaging stays at the relative position and does not present any drifts in certain notes or tones, I think, you have achieved a good TA.

 

We are different, our ears are different as well, so my TAed position may not be acceptable to some that sits on my position.

 

Time alignment, EQ and crossover works in a cycle. For adjustments you made on any of these three factors, the other two will likely be affected. What I do suggest, is that, the crossover point should be set correctly intially. Once that is done, tweak your EQ till the most natural sound is presented (tweak your EQ in non-TA mode) and you are ready for TA. Once into TA, align the energy from both sets of speakers such that the energy coincide in a fixed location. There and then you can start shifting and fix the position YOU prefer.

 

There may be a need to do some fine adjustments the the TA figures, TA affects the characteristic somewhat but subsequent tuning on the EQ should be minimal, provided the EQ is balanced and natural.

 

Competition is another story, its a game and there are rules, know the rules well before taking part.

[Mkvgti]

Coming from ur rear view mirror? Isn't it gotta make the imaging more on the left rather then towards ur face? That way left would sound louder then right. Right?

[Mdvic]

Not sure about that, cause I find the sound just right, instead of right at the front panel, you can tune it all the way to the top, I think you will need to tune the tweeter very high in order to push the music up, it will become like 4 way surrounded sound...

 

Try to tune one speakers at a time, if it can be done then tune the rest slowly.The back is more difficult to tune up unless your is a Coaxail speaker then it will be easier...

 

if your sound when tuning goes 1/3 or 3/4 before reaching the front panel, try using the built in sound selection list ...like example high Vocal, bass and etc...

 

good luck to you.... and happy tuning...

[Bosebani]

just wondering, can i run passive system and managed to tune ta till swee swee in the centre too?

 

 

Very challenging, imho.

 

Needs alot of extra efforts and actions and tons of patients to get the centre image and staging swee swee like Active, eg......placing drivers and tweets at kick panel which most of the ang mos are doing, etc.....

 

Common sound quality of TA passive; Yes, can get Vocal at centre. But the whole staging is affected. How to know le for layman whole staging is affected le ? Use the Isaca 7 drums track and you know what i mean

[Ae86]

the function of time alignment is to help make all the sound coming from all speakers reach the listener at the same time, it doesn't help in raising the stage height but I believe it helps to widen the stage and increase the stage depth. If any fellow forummers here bought this month's issue of hot stuff mag, there is a section on how tweeter placement affect the sound stage of your car.

[Fasthonda]

i do agree with bosebani's explanation that passive system can't achieve what active ta can do.