Wolverine Neutral Newbie February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 Nope ...just modified it with some inspiration from the useless Vteck nology ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedbumps Neutral Newbie February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 hmm.....the vtecians will not be too pleased Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeruel Neutral Newbie February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 ok ok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shull Turbocharged February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 (edited) Because the market has different needs.. just to make it short and sweet.. Why all handphones are NOT the same, 3G, 3mp cam.. Why all computers are NOT the same.. same theory.. market demands dude.. Edited February 21, 2006 by Shull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perseus76 2nd Gear February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 Quote 1) when the turbine blows, chances are the debris of the turbine fin will very likely be blown into the engine as well, damaging the engine block.The intercooler between the intake manifold and turbo also act as a block for debris of a blown turbo to enter the combustion chamber. Unless the debris are broken to like size of little pebbles, which is not possible. Usually when a turbo blows, its the rod that breaks and the size of the rod and fin is too big to go thru the intercooler. true that the IC acts as protection. but things happens, at least it happens to the magnesium fins of the evo 9, which manage to damage the engine when it blows 2) even if u do not rev hard the tubine is always spinning, just that it is not spinning fast enough to let u feel the boast, and it is always fuel consuming. Yes, the turbine is always spinning. The turbine is use to increase air intake and not increase FC. Only when the turbine is at boost(above 0 psi) will FC be increased, else it will be like any other NA cars. yes, u are rite. but the my understanding is that when u have more air going into the engine, slightly more petrol will be burn. although it is just slightly 3) Turbo drinks when in traffic jam Not true. Same as pt 2 turbine generates lots of heat in the bay, so when car is not moving, it is sucking in hot air. guess i need not explain too much on hot air combustion compare to cold air combustion 4) u need do servicing more regularly No doubt. 5) Setup between a TC and NA looks similar, but not exactly the same. The cams are usually different. Not sure, but I dun think so. Its the piston that I am sure is different. Cause its compression that needs to be adjusted to accomodate high boost. yep. my mistake. its the pistons. 6) There are many more additional parts for TC to take care of the pressure, so as not to damage the engine It really depends on the pressure generated by the turbine. You start worry once u try to hit above 1 bar of boost. But u need a low compression piston to go above 0.5-0.7bar of boost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfenstar 3rd Gear February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 Quote ... No doubt a NA engine has less torque than a TC one, but a 2L honda can give 250BHP comparing to a base Rex at 2L giving 220BHP... The prob bro is that other than rice and hairdresser type ppl, the rest of the ppl who buy these cars do like modding, and courtesy of the super aggressive cam profile on the s2k there isn't too much more power you can gain without FI, on the other hand, just chuck on a bigger intercooler with maybe a water spray and turn up the boost... viola, you've hit the 280bhp mark with heaps more torque, not to mention that for the same mods (i.e. intake, exhaust manifold and exhaust system) the power gains for the wrx are higher than the s2k. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfenstar 3rd Gear February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 (edited) 1) when the turbine blows, chances are the debris of the turbine fin will very likely be blown into the engine as well, damaging the engine block. The intercooler between the intake manifold and turbo also act as a block for debris of a blown turbo to enter the combustion chamber. Unless the debris are broken to like size of little pebbles, which is not possible. Usually when a turbo blows, its the rod that breaks and the size of the rod and fin is too big to go thru the intercooler. true that the IC acts as protection. but things happens, at least it happens to the magnesum fins of the evo 9, which manage to damage the engine when it blows Its very rare that the intake turbine gets out of the housing. Usually when the turbo is overboosted (owner/mech's fault, and only when exotic materials are used) or when foreign matter is sucked in via the intake coz of bad filtration. In fact you have a higher likelyhood of your pistons scoring badly in any car than an intake turbine getting into your engine. 2) even if u do not rev hard the tubine is always spinning, just that it is not spinning fast enough to let u feel the boast, and it is always fuel consuming. Yes, the turbine is always spinning. The turbine is use to increase air intake and not increase FC. Only when the turbine is at boost(above 0 psi) will FC be increased, else it will be like any other NA cars. yes, u are rite. but the my understanding is that when u have more air going into the engine, slightly more petrol will be burn. although it is just slightly nope, silver is right... in fact because of this "boostless spinning" TC cars have better FC than their NA twins for highway driving. In fact TC engines use less engergy "suckin" while off boost than theri NA twins. 3) Turbo drinks when in traffic jam not true. Same as pt 2 turbine generates lots of heat in the bay, so when car is not moving, it is sucking in hot air. guess i need not explain too much on hot air combustion compare to cold air combustion As i mentioned in an earlier post, there is very little heat generated by this slower spinning and the coolant and engine oil cool the turbo sufficiently that at times the air going in is at least as cool as the air for a NA car. Also using your hot air anology, in the closed looped cycle (where the car tends to be in during a jam), the o2 sensor affects the duty cycle so the afr can remain near stoich, and hotter air = lower oxygen content = less fuel put in to maintain the afr. Either way a TC car will consume equal or lesser fuel than its NA twin. Its generally on moderate-hard acceleration that a TC car will consume heaps (and i mean heaps)more fuel. 4) u need do servicing more regularly No doubt. just oil changes, nothing much more... unless something screws up then.. 5) (nothing for me to say) 6) There are many more additional parts for TC to take care of the pressure, so as not to damage the engine It really depends on the pressure generated by the turbine. You start worry once u try to hit above 1 bar of boost. But u need a low compression piston to go above 0.5-0.7bar of boost. mm... the 0.5-0.7bar bit is 100% correct when it comes to TCing NA cars, but for factory TC, it depends on the engine... most (at least 90%)can take much more than what you've mentioned. you don't necessarily need to lower compression when going to high boost levels. i'll start naming cars that run more than 1bar of boost on stock internals reliably (you have to make fuel system mods, tuning to ensure correct AFR's and possibly a bigger intercooler). the evo 8 onwards runs at nearly 1.5bar stock (up to 2.2bar modded), the GTR can take 2.6 bar, my lowly CA 180 can take 1.2bar (i've taken her to 2bar quite a few times for short spurts without any ill effects), while the SR 180's can run 1.6 bar (mind you with the exception fo the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool their blocks are mechanically identical to their NA twins), the rb from the other skylines can take 1.8bar, even all the VAG TC variants can take at least up to 1.8bar on stock internals (400bhp-engine, 1.8l a4 quattro on stock internals anyone???) P.S. Mods... i think we need more colours Edited February 21, 2006 by Elfenstar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohtg Neutral Newbie February 21, 2006 Share February 21, 2006 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perseus76 2nd Gear February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 No more colors.... 1) This happens to quite a few modded evo 9. and u are right, so far have not really heard it happening to other TC cars, or rare like u say. 2 & 3) good explanation. clears my mind as well. However, I would like to know if this is theoretical? as generally, even if TC cars owners do not boast their cars and maintain below 0 boast for an entire full tank, it does not usually travel more KM then the NA twins. This is why I arrive to my hot air combustion and turbine spinning concept. Or in practical, what other things could be reason for TC cars having not as good FC as NA, even if not boasting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiayong 3rd Gear February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 Hmm....maybe for the Rex yes? I think pple who buy the S2K will not intend to do much to it. Hee hee...and yeah you are right..only way for S2K is to go FI. Like Suki in 2F2F. SC bolt on kit on her damn sexy hot pink S2K. Churning at 320bhp at the wheels... YUMMY!!!! I wan a PINK AE too.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfenstar 3rd Gear February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 off on a tangent here.... i'm only 4deg away from devon shes a buddy of my friend's bf in the states Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbonetics 2nd Gear February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 Quote cost more? honda just using their marketing to BS you into buying their extra cam.. come one now, it's an extra piece of metal and various parts that've been fashioned by a robotic arm in a factory that uses no lights. cost of research = overcome by the sales and revenue into their gigantic bank accounts. cost of producing that extra set of cams? labour = zero, done by the robotic arm, material = USD$3 ? of course inflated by bank loan, government tax, export/import duties, COE, ARF, and the greatest margin of all, your friendly neighbourhood dealer smiling to the bank when he/she tells you, "Honda good!", yes... Its not really producing just another set of cams. The engine in a DOHC Vtec honda has only 2 cams. At high RPMs, hondas technology just work differently with these same 2 cams to produce more power. So i believe its not really "marketing their BS". Producing these engines, i reckon, may not be really cheap for Honda too. Else I dont see why they cant incorporate the F Series engine into all their current Type R cars. From what I know, Honda holds the current record for BHP/Litre for NA engines? 125BHP/Litre. The S2000 2L has 250BHP while the 2.2L model has 275BHP. Hee, i see that everyone has been criticizing you and you have turned quiet. Well, dont be. Read up more on how the NA and TC cars work and appreciate both of them in its nature. I mean, isnt it amazing? No doubt a NA engine has less torque than a TC one, but a 2L honda can give 250BHP comparing to a base Rex at 2L giving 220BHP. Personally I prefer NA cars. Like some bros mentioned, less parts means less maintainence. And also NA is more laidback driving, which is what I like. Of course the power in the high RPM range is there when I need it. ( Still less torque than a TC of course, but its enough for me. ) If you would like to know more on how Vtec works compared to Toyota's VVt-i, i will try to dig something up for you. Dont worry, all of us here have much to learn from each other. vtec and vvti is not the same thing... but vtec,vvtl-i and mivec are sim ilar stuff right??? btw,2.2litre S2K have the same power as a 2litre one...only higher torque... but i guess we dun have the 2.2litre here in sg... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbonetics 2nd Gear February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 Quote ... No doubt a NA engine has less torque than a TC one, but a 2L honda can give 250BHP comparing to a base Rex at 2L giving 220BHP... The prob bro is that other than rice and hairdresser type ppl, the rest of the ppl who buy these cars do like modding, and courtesy of the super aggressive cam profile on the s2k there isn't too much more power you can gain without FI, on the other hand, just chuck on a bigger intercooler with maybe a water spray and turn up the boost... viola, you've hit the 280bhp mark with heaps more torque, not to mention that for the same mods (i.e. intake, exhaust manifold and exhaust system) the power gains for the wrx are higher than the s2k. yah....TC cars can have higher gains with minimal mods done... but for NA cars,u can only do PnP,high cam...etc no boosting up...unless got a nitrous inside... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K2000 Neutral Newbie February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 Yeah, VTEC is great, my friend driving a DC2 easily win a GSR turbo in drag race Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shull Turbocharged February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 not to mention the 2.0L S2000 has more HP than the new 2.5L TCed REX.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_z 1st Gear February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 Wow!! Didnt know that EVO had such problems. Been driving TC for more than 10 years, never happen to me. Even when I overboost 0.5bar by accident. Screw up EVC. Fuel mapping due to turbo setup. But at idle, it should be same as any NA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ncss Clutched February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 (edited) Why aren't/can't all cars be turbo? = Why aren't/can't all shoes be sports shoes? = Why aren't/can't all shirts be round-neck T-shirts? Edited February 22, 2006 by Ncss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_z 1st Gear February 22, 2006 Share February 22, 2006 Why can't humans have both p???s and v????a?? Then we can have fun by ourselves and not depend on another human? ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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