Dealers and Consumers-The continuing SAGA Part III

[Galantspeedz]

Maybe you are right, but i never heard in house defaulted.

 

I think u r referring to those who bought cars and eventually got repo bcos Dealer did not full settle for their floor financing and stop paying the floor interest, if it is, this is a totally different case.

 

That cases, name wasnt transferred out from Seller to Buyer, Seller original loan not paid up, buyer paid took loan but was never disbursed cos the loan wasnt settled and hence unable to transfer out. Without transfer dealer cannot claim disbursement from bank.

 

 

my experience was hirer pay dealer but dealer never pay bank.... not for 1 car but defaulted as a whole.... car was registered in hirer name... in fact some of the loans left 2-3yrs nia...... in the end dealership closed down, quite a famous dealership too....

[JCSL]

my experience was hirer pay dealer but dealer never pay bank.... not for 1 car but defaulted as a whole.... car was registered in hirer name... in fact some of the loans left 2-3yrs nia...... in the end dealership closed down, quite a famous dealership too....

 

Who was that??? Care to shed some light?

 

[Little_prince]

Hey Welcome Back!

 

Honestly no one is squirmming, close to bone? You are far from very far infact from understanding how the industry works. When you are free, go take a look at quotz, just yesterday a Civic 1.8A closed bid at 12000 Depre A year. Paper + Body??? WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, which era you live in mate?

 

So interesting about your in house loan. SO you are telling people that in house loan the ownership will be under Finance? WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! That is the joke of probably the millennium. I have used in house loan umpteen times, it is required to transfer to new owner name before we can collect disbursement of the loan quantum and how would it be under dealers name? This is really LOLOLOLOLOLOLX. I believe there are forumers here with in house loans and you may ask them to check LTA web to see if they can log in with their IC and Carplate...

 

For Dealers: Raise standards, Sell Cheapest (if possible give free) Value Add in Your definition or Dealer definition? Profit must justify to Buyer? Disclose everything? Try asking BreadTalk to tell you their cost of per bread sold....

 

Seriously Cscbb, it seems to me, you just wanna do it the Burger King way, "Have It Your Way" or Limp Bizkit "My Way Or The Highway"

I think your comments are fair

 

Last time I sold car before Sometimes the private owners offer Sibei unreasonable prices. End up sell to dealers

[Galantspeedz]

Who was that??? Care to shed some light?

 

 

mai lar.. over liao.... 

[JCSL]

mai lar.. over liao.... 

 

PM me leh... share some gossip

[JCSL]

I think your comments are fair

 

Last time I sold car before Sometimes the private owners offer Sibei unreasonable prices. End up sell to dealers

 

Thanks...

 

Just an update for Quotz today to counter "Paper + Body"

Latio Dec 2007 Paper is 10260 as of 23 Jan 2016 handover, the bid now is at 22400.

 

If under "Paper + Body" the body is worth 12200.... WOW!!!!!!!

[JCSL]

What year is the civic? If only a year left, then that dealer better not be on finance to buy in that unit.

 

But still does not negate my point that buyers need to be clear on the paper+body, and the asking price. In this case, the winning dealer has decided to tikam on inflating the body value with such a bid. So can only sell in singapore to the next sucker.

 

And what is the dealer going to put into/value add the unit since the bid so high? If the dealer willing to do quality touch up and basic servicing, they are entitled to ask for a profit. How can you live with yourself if you only lie and make empty promises?

 

Just want all buyers to read and warn them against being the next sucker of low quality dealers.

 

Hahahaha....

 

Body Value... HAHAHAHA!!!!

 

How much is a FD1 body worth in your opinion?

 

HAHAHAHA....

 

Your theory kinda fit it to the Direct Buyers that Little_Prince pointed out....

 

HAHAHAHAHA... cant stop smiling and giggling while typing...

 

*Feb 2007 AXIO paper value at Handover Date on 18 Jan 2016 is 9629

Closed Bid is 18000, Body Value at 8317

 

Paper + Body ? Wahahahahahahaha

Edited January 13, 2016 by JCSL

[JCSL]

Now you have revealed your ability to double talk and half truths. Typical salesman.

 

In-house loans means those extended by dealer themselves, likely from credit house or non-bank financial company. Higher interest.

 

Your small dealer 'in-house loan' really means those banks which tie-up with you and promise you a bit higher commission.

 

Buyers should do their own credit check first and determine how much each can loan instead of leaving it up to the dealer. Buyers should also ask for the lta log card which will show whether the dealer has bought in the car clean or it is consignment and pass through too many hands.

 

WAHAHAHAHAH!!!! I have to start the reply by a big laugh first.... :)

 

Credit House? Non-Bank financial company? Wahahahaha....

Go find out the meaning of block facilities first lah... haiyo

 

In House Loan is thru a dealer who has Block Facility with Banks and using the block facility to issue loans under Hire Purchase Act.

 

Your definition of in house is a normal loan submittion that banks rather work with Credit agent such as Sin Tai Heng/Dickson Capital.

LTA log car can know if the car is bought outright clean or Consignment which is true, but under Floor financing or not unless you can log in to LTA to see whether this ca is tagged.

Again you cannot face the issue when cornered: if you have honest open upfront disclosure of all the effort you put into each unit, why be afraid of asking for a profit?

 

It is because very few dealers bother to value-add or make extra effort to improve the quality of their merchandise. This buy-low-mark-up and sell to the next sucker cannot be the way forward for singapore businesses.

 

You ask for high profit but cannot explain what you improved on each unit. You count on buyer bring up issues, then you fix or find excuse. So if they don't ask or don't know how to look, even better. You just keep quiet and get them out of the way quickly.

 

I repeat that I have bought and driven used cars for decades. Each time I have given a nice profit to the upfront dealers who are transparent with their extra efforts.

 

Ya upfront, be honest!

 

Tell you how much we buy in, show you financial statements, bank statements, birth cert and marriage cert... including color of underwear.

 

WAHAHAHAHA

 

Its ok mate, if we ever cross path.... I believe its not you wanna buy or not, I am sure i rather miss the deal :)

 

Cheers mate.

[Blueray]

eh in the words of a wise minister

 

'He is either a DEALER or NOT a DEALER'      

 

still around meh ? I thought ex-minister already ... ?

[Carnoob]

1.some dealers i met say cannot refund deposit unless STA shows grade C or below

 

2. some dealers says ok, can refund if the cost of repair is substantial (more than $5k)

 

3. some dealers say they cannot refund, but they will repair on their own cost before delivering the car

 

4. one dealer i met said no refund, but he will pay for the first $3k of whatever repair to be done and the rest is my own cost.

 

 

so which approach would you say is considered reasonable to both buyer and dealer?

For me, best with combination of 1 and 3, so if cannot refund then bear the repair cost. Point 4 is also acceptable depending on the total cost (if $3000 covers 3/4 of the repair cost).

 

And for 2 a definite NO.

[JCSL]

Well, here it is documented: dealers do withold information and play on buyers' ignorance or excitement/fear.

 

And the state of singapore used car dealers is that there is very little value add, despite the high profits.

 

But I don't wish you ill will. I actually want singapore used car dealers to be enlightened and improved such that they are experts and skilled professionals who are knowledgeable and honest.

 

Why you don't want to benchmark to become better, cleaner and more honest, is puzzling.

 

High profits? Ya I agree... minimum 8 to 10K profit per car (take note its minimum)

 

I say this to make all who believes that dealers can buy in cars at PAPER + BODY price, happy :)

 

Especially dedicated to Cscbb

[Little_prince]

even 8-10k per car also not very ridiculous ma?

 

AD's markup is even more? 20-30k

[Frenzzsg]

Just wanting to share a recent car buying experience :

First of all, the most impt thing to ME (this will vary for different buyer) when buying a used car is :

1. Car free of major accident (Meaning, no engine, gearbox, airbag involved)

2. Price is within my budget and doesn't deviate too much from the average selling price for the similar model/year (this is a homework to be done via sgcarmart). It doesnt have to be the cheapest among all, not that i'm sibei rich but i believe every car is different.

 

Saw an used car ad on sgcarmart, stating it's a consignment car, pics looked great, specs & price looks reasonable and it is a PI car.

 

Called to make a viewing appt. Stated upfront i'm looking to trade-in my used car (which happens to have a very high OMV, with a pretty good body value. Cuz previously i gotten a quote from an exporter b4). Told the dealer my asking price on my used car. Before gg down, i called again to cfm that they're still able to take in my car at my asking price shd i decided to buy the car before gg down.

 

Dealer that is helping made a mistake on the timing, end up i only have less than 10mins to see the car. -_-" then the seller drives off.

Still, car condition is really not bad considered it's a used car.

 

Went down to dealer office to negotiate.

 

Ask dealer to give me his best price if i can decide within the next 24hrs. But if the discount gonna be insignificant like $500, then dun bother....haha. Also being very upfront to the dealer that i will be gg down to view another car. Even show the dealer which car i was looking at thru sgcarmart. Dealer initially was pretty insistent on the price as to be honest, the selling price is pretty decent. Then he said, if i can decide on the spot, tdy, and dun go view the other car, he will give me a best discount.   

Call me naive, sucker or whatever...it's a love at the 1st sight...haha   
I went out to make a call to my buddy...after a good 10mins discussion, i went in to ask for a best discount for me to decide on the spot. The price must be NETT. meaning no additional fee. Also make it clear to them i will let them do the loan (60%), but will do insurance on my own. (Frankly at this point of time, as long as the dealer gives me some decent discount, 1k-2k, i will buy already)

 

The boss was pretty steady, offer a 2k discount from the initial asking price.
So we agreed on a final price of $1XX,800 with the following conditions :

1. Car is major accident free (engine, gearbox, ECU), any minor touch up or repair like bumper, dents repairs are fine 
2. Car to be sent to my own workshop for inspections and a FULL refund of deposit should point 1 is not fulfill 
This is clearly stated on sales agreement.

Then we went up to the carpark to take my driving licence and also pictures of my old car. 
On my way down, i managed to ask for another $800 discount.   
While doing the paperwork, initially i ask for the loan to be done on a particular bank, which they dont have. Initially they insist that all major bank now offer the same interest for used car. Then i said if i can get lower how? can u top up the different? Then they clarify that of cuz interest for certain privilege banking customers will be different.With a quick mental calculation, i figure the difference of the interest charge is still acceptable to me, and for the fact that they have been very transparent upfront, i decided to go ahead with their bank loan partners.

I paid a $2k deposit with NETS, becuz they dun have credit card machine (maybe they purposedly dont apply to save on charges..haha, but i verified personally really no credit card machine there). 

 

Decided on the purchase within 45mins, and with all paper work, everything was completed in 1.5hrs...haha (nope this is not an impulse buy. did my homework on sgcarmart for 2-3mths, view a few cars. coe due-ng in June 2016)
And becuz i wasnt given much time to view, touch or even test drive the car, the dealer actually agreed to arrange a test drive on the following day, which happens to be a Sunday!! Also, promise to rush all paperwork so that if everything is ok i can collect the car b4 Xmas!! :)

Car was sent down by the dealer to my workshop on 21st Dec (monday) morning for inspection.
Workshop came back with relatively good news, no major repair/error code is spotted, except for a few wear & tear parts that have to be changed :
Absorber + stopper + mount
Front brake rotor + front & rear brake pads.
I'm preparing to co-share the repair cost hence asking my WS to quote, as if i'm the one paying.
Then i fwd the parts & cost to the dealer.

As expected, initially the dealer proposed to have the repairs done at their own workshop, but i would rather co-share 50/50 on the repair cost so that they can just minus off from my original selling price and i can collect the car fast and get the parts replaced in a workshop that i trusted. Eventually, we agreed on a 40/60 (i believe the dealer is co sharing this with the seller) sharing on the repair cost (i take 60%)

My loan was approved on the 22nd (tues morning), and the dealer came down to collect my NRIC for the transfer pin and i eventually get to collect my car on the 23rd December afternoon!! Also collected a cheque on the additional amt from the sale of my old car and also the hand-over. Dealer also let me know in advance that the ownership transfer will prob only be done after Xmas.

As i was happily driving my new car till 28th Dec, got a shock to see my old car installment still been deducted from my GIRO. Called the boss late night and he assured me that this is prob a delay due to the ph & weekends and any excess amount deducted from me will definitely be refunded.

 

Frankly, my heart really sank at this point of time. Worried that could this be another scam?
The following day morning, the dealer called me personally early morning b4 9am, telling me that the finance has just dropped a cheque to clear my existing loan on the yesterday afternoon so maybe that's the delay. But the amount that has been deducted will be refunded by the bank automatically. (verified this with the bank makes me feel more assured).

After waiting anxiously for the next 24hrs (keep login into onemotoring to check on the car ownership), the transfer of ownership was finally done on the 31st Dec 2015!! What a relief....also, the additional installment deducted was also refunded to me 1 week later.

 

Overall, it was a very happy buying experience. I guess i was lucky to meet an honest dealer, who worked very hard for me to collect the car b4 Xmas!!   

Just some afterthoughts (very very personal opinion, so dun flame me ok?)

1.I have seen friends getting really excited and happy with their purchase becuz the car condition was really good and the price was decent on the low side compared to the average selling price on sgcarmart, within their budget. Kept phrasing the service of the dealer was good, honest, etc....until they got to know on the referral fee on loan & insurance then they start complaining, saying it's an expensive buy, kena carrot, etc.....

 Car dealers are running a biz here and biz can only survive when there is a profit. It's not difficult to find out roughly the kinda profit margin the car dealer is earning. (In my case, their consignment fee is 1% of the nett sales price). Their referral fees on bank loan, insurance, etc. These info can be easily found...but it really doesnt matter much to me becuz why would i wanna judge my purchase whether is it a good buy or kena carrot based on the seller profit margin?

2. There is a saying of "U pay Peanuts, U get monkey". I'm not saying that all services must be tied to a $$ sign becuz there ought to be a basic service standard. But if u have squeeze the seller dry on every little bit of their profit juice, u cant expect some services that's out of the box.

 

3. Call me naive again, but i will always try to give dealer the benefit of doubt that they're honest. U can further test it with some questions asked on the car. Respect the dealer who's running a honest, decent biz here. Assure the dealer that u're a sincere buyer, that not all out to squeeze them dry. Only then we can reach out to a win-win situation.


P.S I have my fair share of encounters with disgusting dealers/sellers who literally thru their teeth. Fortunately, i didnt have any financial lost...just waste time.


And for bros here who're looking for dealers to help selling your car on consignment basis, you can look for Shawn from Euro Performance, or the boss Anson (if i dun remember their name wrongly...haha)

 

My god, i'm getting more & more long winded liao....

Edited January 13, 2016 by Frenzzsg

[JCSL]

Thanks for pointing out that some dealers overpay for used cars. Hope u are not the stupid one.

 

For all buyers: The paper value does not change. Those dealers taking a chance overpaying for the body. High-priced body value can only sell in singapore for now, to the next sucker. They overpay for bread and butter car in a small market like singapore. One knock on COE by bad economy and they are left holding the baby.

 

Make sure you are not the one buying someone else's problem.

 

re: especially dedicated...

I not begrudging you your profit. I just want buyers to be more discerning about the quality of service and value-add provided by used car dealers.

 

You do not assemble the car, nor improve on each unit. You hardly clean it to a top standard. No usp for your merchandise and yet you act entitled to continued profit. Your technical skill level is low as well, so you got no barrier to entry for your business. Yet you do nothing to make the extra effort to improve and stand apart.

 

Used car dealers work ethic and attitude represent what is wrong with the singaporean worker. No pride in the merchandise and no extra effort to be outstanding. Hit minimum standard yet expect good pay/profit.

 

We say, "Pay peanuts and get monkeys". But for used cars here we are paying a premium and the monkeys remain.

 

 

HAHAHA!!!! Why do i have to reply you with a big laugh?!?!

 

Body Body Body.... Body price..... WAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

Fellow forumers, you have heard, seen or experience Dealers offering paper value only, I am quite sure Cscbb is one of those who offer paper + body price to sellers and make a large large obscene profit out of it. Even as a direct buyer he will offer such pricing to sellers...

 

No wonder he can talk about car dealer turn property landlords and all, it takes one to know the other...

 

Now the picture is clear... hehehehehe

 

LOLOLOLOLOLXXXXX paper + body

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by JCSL

[Galantspeedz]

Thanks for pointing out that some dealers overpay for used cars. Hope u are not the stupid one.

 

For all buyers: The paper value does not change. Those dealers taking a chance overpaying for the body. High-priced body value can only sell in singapore for now, to the next sucker. They overpay for bread and butter car in a small market like singapore. One knock on COE by bad economy and they are left holding the baby.

 

Make sure you are not the one buying someone else's problem.

 

re: especially dedicated...

I not begrudging you your profit. I just want buyers to be more discerning about the quality of service and value-add provided by used car dealers.

 

You do not assemble the car, nor improve on each unit. You hardly clean it to a top standard. No usp for your merchandise and yet you act entitled to continued profit. Your technical skill level is low as well, so you got no barrier to entry for your business. Yet you do nothing to make the extra effort to improve and stand apart.

 

Used car dealers work ethic and attitude represent what is wrong with the singaporean worker. No pride in the merchandise and no extra effort to be outstanding. Hit minimum standard yet expect good pay/profit.

 

We say, "Pay peanuts and get monkeys". But for used cars here we are paying a premium and the monkeys remain.

 

i think you getting abit over liao...... though i agree that bad dealers outweigh good dealers but there are still some decent ones around

 

you keep saying you do not begrudge them their profit but i feel you are...

 

have you handled private sellers before? not easy.... and they want sell to at dealer price also though they hardly put in effort to do up the car... at least most dealers will touch up the exterior of the car

[Dscheng]

i think you getting abit over liao...... though i agree that bad dealers outweigh good dealers but there are still some decent ones around

 

you keep saying you do not begrudge them their profit but i feel you are...

 

have you handled private sellers before? not easy.... and they want sell to at dealer price also though they hardly put in effort to do up the car... at least most dealers will touch up the exterior of the car

Somehow rather, i agree with you. At least car dealer indeed doing that by touch up paintwork, some interior cleaning or other misc, etc.

I lucky to get a new leather seat and get the dealer change suspension for me too.

[Maz0608]

actually yes.

 

that's the whole intent of the new rules.

 

to prevent people who cannot afford from getting into trouble. what you're doing now is not only illegal but also immoral.

Used car dealers are Saints. Instead of asking the poor buyer to go take public transport, they are trying ways and means to help him get his dream car even at the expense of breaking the law.

[Carnoob]

i think you getting abit over liao...... though i agree that bad dealers outweigh good dealers but there are still some decent ones around

 

you keep saying you do not begrudge them their profit but i feel you are...

 

have you handled private sellers before? not easy.... and they want sell to at dealer price also though they hardly put in effort to do up the car... at least most dealers will touch up the exterior of the car

Errr... I wouldn't be too concern about what he said, it just seems like a broken old record that is repeating the same old thing over and over again and again... don't believe me just check all his reply...

 

I'm seeing 2 extremists in discussions, one so-called dealer and one so called experienced buyer. Nothing constructive will come out from either one. My personal opinion is very simple, I find one good one I recommend, one bad one I feedback. Period.