Jobs for Filipinos only.

[Mustank]

 

 

Actually, I am not young; very established in my career already; and these issues do not really affect me personally. But i feel strongly against discrimination in all forms.

 

I always knew that these discriminatory acts existed for the longest time, even when as a young noob looking for my first job. But at that time, nobody would acknowledge these things were discriminatory. Everyone bochap.. because it was relatively easy to get a job in those days, when you are qualified.

 

Only recently do people start acknowledging and start taking action. As Daryn says in his above post - "At least they've taken the first step - SG govt never moves fast (unless its to fill their pockets). "

 

So, I am just doing my bit for the future generations - prodding the powers that be, and raising awareness, and keeping the topic alive. If we don't help our own countrymen... who will?

 

well said!!!

[Zanter]

I think depends on industry and the type of job. Even though it is not cheap to hire a foreigner nowadays, but there are still plenty of companies cannot do without foreigners and continue or prefer to hire them.

 

Anyway, the recruitment person should be a filipino, that's why the ad can have such a clause that only filipinos can apply?!

 

Honest truth is hard to accept sometimes but I think we have all experienced service from both local and foreigners before and very often the foreigner is prepared to do a bit more or met a higher service standard. Partially as a foreigner they are hungrier, just like us locals go to say USA, you will work your ass off to secure your job, compared to a local who has the security of a established family network to fall back on.

 

The local there view the imports with disdain because they spoil the market, work 110%., go home later and grind the extra mile. Just like in recent news the Chinese kiosk operators in France cant understand why the local are so lazy and work such short hours.

 

If you are a consumer you will want a dedicated foreigner to renovate your home or a take it easy local? Or are you prepared to pay more renovation cost to get local to do the work for you? In reality, as consumers we all benefit from foreigners who are prepared to do low status jobs that locals are not prepared to do or will only do with a lot of complains? But as a local worker, we want job protection from foreigners. So exactly woot is that we want?

Edited October 24, 2013 by Zanter

[Kangadrool]

 

it is more of how much the boss is willing to earn less.

most of the time, bosses are underpaying employees so that they can have more money in their own pocket.

this is why we are seeing the richer become richer and the poorer become poorer.

Agreed, high five to you.

 

Bosses are only interested to grow their revenue and profits by certain percentage based on their own pre-defined expectations which often are too aggressive. When it comes to pay increment, it often lags behind inflation (if there's an increment to begin with).

 

Honest truth is hard to accept sometimes but I think we have all experienced service from both local and foreigners before and very often the foreigner is prepared to do a bit more or met a higher service standard. Partially as a foreigner they are hungrier, just like us locals go to say USA, you will work your ass off to secure your job, compared to a local who has the security of a established family network to fall back on.

 

The local there view the imports with disdain because they spoil the market, work 110%., go home later and grind the extra mile. Just like in recent news the Chinese kiosk operators in France cant understand why the local are so lazy and work such short hours.

 

If you are a consumer you will want a dedicated foreigner to renovate your home or a take it easy local? Or are you prepared to pay more renovation cost to get local to do the work for you? In reality, as consumers we all benefit from foreigners who are prepared to do low status jobs that locals are not prepared to do or will only do with a lot of complains? But as a local worker, we want job protection from foreigners. So exactly woot is that we want?

I recently paid a very reasonable rate for a LOCAL pumbler to fix my mixer tap. I won't trust it to FTrashes.

 

For the amount of time he spent on fixing it, it is relative reasonable. So, I tip him a bit more in the end.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Kangadrool

[Jman888]

 

 

Actually, I am not young; very established in my career already; and these issues do not really affect me personally. But i feel strongly against discrimination in all forms.

 

I always knew that these discriminatory acts existed for the longest time, even when as a young noob looking for my first job. But at that time, nobody would acknowledge these things were discriminatory. Everyone bochap.. because it was relatively easy to get a job in those days, when you are qualified.

 

Only recently do people start acknowledging and start taking action. As Daryn says in his above post - "At least they've taken the first step - SG govt never moves fast (unless its to fill their pockets). "

 

So, I am just doing my bit for the future generations - prodding the powers that be, and raising awareness, and keeping the topic alive. If we don't help our own countrymen... who will?

 

 

If you are established in your career but do you involve in all HR and recruitment issues? EEO has came about long long time since MNCs came in, although this is what they advocate, but the person/dept handling the recruitment change from time to time, and base on different time and industry.

 

good time bad time affect some industries and more on the other industries. The local SMEs don't really care about EEO and has put up discriminatory ads all this while, again depends on how the boss/culture of the company choose their people (some want cheap and some only want certain race). Discrimination? sure but it is also their culture and survival.

 

We can do our part, i hire local and foreigner base on merit and reliability. Cost only comes in for certain levels and they are doing the basic job normally quite high turnover. For industries that rely on people and reliable working attitude and committed hours. I doubt many local can promise you that. Yes you can quote there are 'some' people out there, but do they have the relevant skills and does the SME has to search every corner of the island to locate these people?

[Mustank]

Agreed, high five to you.

 

Bosses are only interested to grow their revenue and profits by certain percentage based on their own pre-defined expectations which often are too aggressive. When it comes to pay increment, it often lags behind inflation (if there's an increment to begin with).

I recently paid a very reasonable rate for a LOCAL pumbler to fix my mixer tap. I won't trust it to FTrashes.

 

For the amount of time he spent on fixing it, it is relative reasonable. So, I tip him a bit more in the end.

 

well said!!! i rather go eat good old local hawker food than patronise some all pinoy team restaurant

[Darryn]

For what i do quality and initiativ more important than price. I also must hire people that "get" whati say as i dont have the answers....u also must do your own thinking

 

Honest truth is hard to accept sometimes but I think we have all experienced service from both local and foreigners before and very often the foreigner is prepared to do a bit more or met a higher service standard. Partially as a foreigner they are hungrier, just like us locals go to say USA, you will work your ass off to secure your job, compared to a local who has the security of a established family network to fall back on.

 

The local there view the imports with disdain because they spoil the market, work 110%., go home later and grind the extra mile. Just like in recent news the Chinese kiosk operators in France cant understand why the local are so lazy and work such short hours.

 

If you are a consumer you will want a dedicated foreigner to renovate your home or a take it easy local? Or are you prepared to pay more renovation cost to get local to do the work for you? In reality, as consumers we all benefit from foreigners who are prepared to do low status jobs that locals are not prepared to do or will only do with a lot of complains? But as a local worker, we want job protection from foreigners. So exactly woot is that we want?

[Jman888]

 

Honest truth is hard to accept sometimes but I think we have all experienced service from both local and foreigners before and very often the foreigner is prepared to do a bit more or met a higher service standard. Partially as a foreigner they are hungrier, just like us locals go to say USA, you will work your ass off to secure your job, compared to a local who has the security of a established family network to fall back on.

 

 

 

in the past people always complain the local in service industry has attitude problem and not willing to work at low wages. Slowly no many local in the industry and replace with foreigners which some say their attitude are better and more hungry, then slowly these foreigners are becoming like the local with poor attitude as they also see better opportunity elsewhere.

 

yet as a consumer we are expecting higher standard and quality but at cheaper price.... and complain till no one wants to work in this industry ...

Edited October 24, 2013 by Jman888

[Joseph22]

I was, just for the fun of it, just doing a quick search of the ST jobs db.

 

I realise that employers are now very sneaky - they are trying to circumvent the new rulings, by insidiously placing a couple of lines that insist that the candidates must be:

"Fluent Chinese & English and is a must… (to liaise with Chinese speaking client and associates)"

 

500+ jobs came up in the search.. even jobs like "

Technical Application Specialist"

having such criteria.

 

I am sure some jobs do need Chinese skills... but seriously, this is Singapore. Almost everyone communicates sufficiently in English - there is no die, die reason a some of these jobs to have Chinese language skills as a criteria.

 

Anyway... I guess we can't change the world. I just pity future generations of Singaporeans. Whatever said and done about Singapore being a multicultural country, discrimination will exist in many forms.

if u are a technical specialist and worker under u are $400 per month salary from prc, it make sense to be Chinese speaking,

[Raymondism]

I was, just for the fun of it, just doing a quick search of the ST jobs db.

 

I realise that employers are now very sneaky - they are trying to circumvent the new rulings, by insidiously placing a couple of lines that insist that the candidates must be:

"Fluent Chinese & English and is a must… (to liaise with Chinese speaking client and associates)"

 

500+ jobs came up in the search.. even jobs like "

Technical Application Specialist"

having such criteria.

 

I am sure some jobs do need Chinese skills... but seriously, this is Singapore. Almost everyone communicates sufficiently in English - there is no die, die reason a some of these jobs to have Chinese language skills as a criteria.

 

Anyway... I guess we can't change the world. I just pity future generations of Singaporeans. Whatever said and done about Singapore being a multicultural country, discrimination will exist in many forms.

 

not true.. some job need to liaise with Chinese speaking client or supplier

 

using mandarin will get a faster response...

[Joseph22]

Agreed, high five to you.

 

Bosses are only interested to grow their revenue and profits by certain percentage based on their own pre-defined expectations which often are too aggressive. When it comes to pay increment, it often lags behind inflation (if there's an increment to begin with).

I recently paid a very reasonable rate for a LOCAL pumbler to fix my mixer tap. I won't trust it to FTrashes.

 

For the amount of time he spent on fixing it, it is relative reasonable. So, I tip him a bit more in the end.

fixing a mixer Tap is different from,renovating ur house.

 

are u willing to pay 30k for renovation or 60k for renovation?

[JackRabbit]

if u are a technical specialist and worker under u are $400 per month salary from prc, it make sense to be Chinese speaking,

 

 

wow.. J22, you seem to have some insider info. Which company in Singapore is hiring PRC worker for less than $400 a month? That seems pretty low. Seems like that's really abusing the PRCs workers to be paid so low.

 

not true.. some job need to liaise with Chinese speaking client or supplier

 

using mandarin will get a faster response...

 

Yep.. I agree. That's why I said for some jobs this may matter; but I can't believe for all the advertised jobs this is a true criteria.

fixing a mixer Tap is different from,renovating ur house.

 

are u willing to pay 30k for renovation or 60k for renovation?

 

J22, you like to throw numbers liberally.

 

So are you saying that a foreign company can renovate for $30k whilst a singapore company would cost double that? Seems like someone's math is screwed up, and one of these companies looking to close shop very soon.

[Joseph22]

 

 

wow.. J22, you seem to have some insider info. Which company in Singapore is hiring PRC worker for less than $400 a month? That seems pretty low. Seems like that's really abusing the PRCs workers to be paid so low.

 

Yep.. I agree. That's why I said for some jobs this may matter; but I can't believe for all the advertised jobs this is a true criteria.

I work around in different industries and still in contact with my old colleague in those industries. In fact 4years back, the bangalah worker in my previous company are earning only 400 dollar. They are not under work permit but rather under some worker quota for shipyard.

 

 

 

 

J22, you like to throw numbers liberally.

 

So are you saying that a foreign company can renovate for $30k whilst a singapore company would cost double that? Seems like someone's math is screwed up, and one of these companies looking to close shop very soon.

that's likely the price u have to pay if u know the man hour charge rate for fw and local worker. Its part of my field of work to deal with labour purchase.

[Sabian]

J22, you any how hantum again.

Econs defines unemployment rate as The percentage of the total labor force that is unemployed but actively seeking employment and willing to work... or something like that.

 

problem is MOM very conveniently drops the number of people who are still looking for job but have not found jobs in 6 months from the active job seeker number... a little dirty secret I remember some economist mentioned.. need to confirm that somewhere but cannot get their methodology.

 

so if you are retrenched and cannot find job for 6 months, you are not considered unemployed by MOM..

 

you say leh? is it very low??

I'm also curious...

[JackRabbit]

so do you feel that it's ok that people are paid $400 a month? Different from live-in domestic workers, who have room and board as part of their package (and I say they too are very underpaid); what about those workers in a shipyard - are they given free food and housing to justify the low pay? What about those PRC workers you mentioned earlier working in the lab under the technical specialists - do they also get free lodging and food?

[Raymondism]

fixing a mixer Tap is different from,renovating ur house.

 

are u willing to pay 30k for renovation or 60k for renovation?

 

furthermore, many plumbers are one man show or moonlighting...

 

I can moonlight on weekends as a one man show plumber and I did not break any law

Its different for foreigners

 

Foreigners need a work pass to work in Singapore and cannot just come here to start his own small biz providing plumbing services...

Even those on LTSVP or dependent pass needs a letter from MOM to allow them to work

 

so if anyone see a foreigner going around offering plumbing services.. or performing garang guni job... better dun entertain...

 

u might get implicated...

so do you feel that it's ok that people are paid $400 a month? Different from live-in domestic workers, who have room and board as part of their package (and I say they too are very underpaid); what about those workers in a shipyard - are they given free food and housing to justify the low pay? What about those PRC workers you mentioned earlier working in the lab under the technical specialists - do they also get free lodging and food?

 

question is are you ok with paying more for everything else?

 

Local shipyards or rig builders are facing alot of competition from China Yards...

Local rig builders are no 1 in the world... but they have to remain competitive...

[JackRabbit]

 

furthermore, many plumbers are one man show or moonlighting...

 

I can moonlight on weekends as a one man show plumber and I did not break any law

Its different for foreigners

 

Foreigners need a work pass to work in Singapore and cannot just come here to start his own small biz providing plumbing services...

Even those on LTSVP or dependent pass needs a letter from MOM to allow them to work

 

so if anyone see a foreigner going around offering plumbing services.. or performing garang guni job... better dun entertain...

 

u might get implicated...

 

question is are you ok with paying more for everything else?

 

Local shipyards or rig builders are facing alot of competition from China Yards...

Local rig builders are no 1 in the world... but they have to remain competitive...

 

 

Let's put it this way. No one likes to pay more, but I am willing to pay more if justified.

 

For example, if paying more means that the one earning gets a decent salary to live, yes I am willing to pay more. If paying more means pure profiteering on the part of the supplier - no, then I am not willing to pay more.

 

If paying more for a reputable renovator who does not abuse his workers by paying them slave wages - yes, I would be willing to pay more.

[Joseph22]

so do you feel that it's ok that people are paid $400 a month? Different from live-in domestic workers, who have room and board as part of their package (and I say they too are very underpaid); what about those workers in a shipyard - are they given free food and housing to justify the low pay? What about those PRC workers you mentioned earlier working in the lab under the technical specialists - do they also get free lodging and food?

those worker are given free stay at kian teck area. Food is not included. Do I think it's fair? I felt its low, but if those worker don't think so and want to come to work, who are we to say we mistreat them.

 

having said that, most of them after OT should be earning around 1K if the company don't follow the OT rule set by MOM, BTW, if u speak to then, they come to Singapore mainly to earn the OT pay,

 

 

Let's put it this way. No one likes to pay more, but I am willing to pay more if justified.

 

For example, if paying more means that the one earning gets a decent salary to live, yes I am willing to pay more. If paying more means pure profiteering on the part of the supplier - no, then I am not willing to pay more.

 

If paying more for a reputable renovator who does not abuse his workers by paying them slave wages - yes, I would be willing to pay more.

we are talking about company dealing primary with oversea costomer who generally dont care. so u rather they pay more for local and risk lossing the business and hence causing more job loss?

[JackRabbit]

we are talking about company dealing primary with oversea costomer who generally dont care. so u rather they pay more for local and risk lossing the business and hence causing more job loss?

 

so, do you think that any of these companies management are actually living hand to mouth, and barely surviving that they die die must hire foreigner for $400/mth, instead of paying reasonable salaries to locals? Aren't these the same management that drives Merc S-class and 7-series bimmers?